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View Full Version : Engine cranks over real slow, then faster.


djm
03-27-2008, 03:41 PM
What would cause the engine to crank over really slow then speeds up to normal after a couple of seconds? It takes 2 batteries to crank it over hot or cold.

Engine is 7.4MPI with only 40 hours on it. The boat sat for 3 years before I bought it everything else works fine.

Rattlesnake Jake
03-27-2008, 03:44 PM
1st thing comes to mind is timing too high..

Fyhr Factor
03-27-2008, 04:03 PM
Retard the ign. timing a bit and then see if that helps..

Wally
03-27-2008, 04:11 PM
Check Batt connections....could be a bad ground cable or corrosion inside the cable ends causing resistance

NstyLX
03-27-2008, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by Wally
Check Batt connections....could be a bad ground cable or corrosion inside the cable ends causing resistance

Ditto. Check your connections/cables!

LIBERATOR 21
03-28-2008, 08:28 AM
sounds like a starter to me...been there

MarkyMark
03-28-2008, 08:46 AM
you can rule out timing quickly by pulling the distributer wire and cranking again. if it cranks normal, it's your timing. If not it either starter or bad ground.

Canada Jeff
03-29-2008, 08:57 AM
Just for another idea to check if the above mentioned are OK. In my last boat I had a header fail letting water creep into the cylinders when I shut it off. Then when I would started it, it would hydraulic (roll very slow) till the water was pushed out. The it would start. it didn't last long, I ended up blowing the head gasket out and wrecking the block and head :mad: .

Don't mean to scare you, just throwing that out there.

djm
04-24-2008, 06:07 PM
Got to messing with the boat yesterday and today. After removing the trim pump to change the solenoids (PITA) I tried to fire her up. All I got was wurrrr....wurrr.....wurrr..... and then nothing. Not even a good crank. Now all I get is a click.

Connections are tight. I traced the positives (dual batteries) all around the bilge and the negatives to the rear of the block. All are tight, although I didn't clean the negatives on the back of the block. They don't look corroded.

Is there any way to know if it's the starter without taking it out of the boat? Removing the plugs maybe?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

PJDiesel
04-24-2008, 06:10 PM
TAKE THE PLUGS OUT AND CRANK.

Sounds to me like you have water in one or more of the cylinders. :(

Fyhr Factor
04-24-2008, 06:49 PM
Yes try taking the plugs out, at least to eliminate the possibility of water in the cylinders..
If that's good,
then get an inductive DC Amp tester, sears has them, and place over your positive cable to the starter and crank over, if it exceeds around 190 Amps, change the starter.
You may want to check for voltage drop to all points, neg. and pos test. cables, relays, etc.

Are you sure your batteries are up to snuff.?? how old are they? are they rated for the proper Cold Cranking Amps for your engine? or they may have just lost there cranking amp power.
You should of never of needed 2 batteries to crank your engine over from the start..

djm
04-24-2008, 07:00 PM
I just pulled one bank of plugs with the same result..... click.

I'm going back out there to see if I can crank it by hand.

Batteries are brand new last June. Been on a trickle charger all winter. One is 745 multi purpose the other is 1000 starting. Definitely not a battery issue! My old boat had a 454 MAG and started up with my half dead portable jumber pack.

djm
04-24-2008, 07:30 PM
Cranks over hard by hand but it does move smoothly. I felt it hit the next compression stroke and I couldn't go any further. If I had removed all 8 plugs I think it would've kept going. Does that mean I can rule out a bad engine :D

So what should I do next? Grab that Sears tool I suppose?

How much is a marine starter anyway? Pretty tough to get at in my boat. Not sure if I'd do it myself.

http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/3557/2005627820033940199S600x600Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2005627820033940199tIbEtw)

PJDiesel
04-24-2008, 08:00 PM
No, doesn't mean you have a bad engine.

Take out one side at a time (10 minute job) crank it over (with the key), it water shoots out one of the holes, you need to look further.

Does the oil appear normal in color?

djm
04-24-2008, 08:09 PM
If water were in the cylinders would I be able to crank it by hand?

Oil is perfect.

hyper1
04-25-2008, 06:03 AM
Yes you would if it was a small amount of water because of the cam over lap, but I still think it is a bad starter...but please check the cylinders for water to make sure. If it is all dry, put a starter on it.

I awsume you did check the cables and made sure the engine has a good ground.

PJDiesel
04-25-2008, 06:26 AM
Starter isn't going to be that bad of a job. Even if you have to lay across the motor to get down there to it.

cmchevy
04-25-2008, 07:28 AM
if all your hearing is a click, then you have a bad solenoid on your starter. Take it out and bench test your starter and noid. Then if its bad go get a new one. if there is water in your motor it should still turn over.

3wood
04-25-2008, 09:15 AM
I had a 242ss, Whew Not a very fun job changing the starter. The biggest pain in the a$$ is there are two bolts that hold it on and one is right up against the flywheel cover. Unless they changed it on your newer engine. I couldnt get a socket on it or a box end of a combo wrench. Ended up grinding the end of I believe a 9/16 tubing wrench to where it just fit onto the bolt head and doubling up on the combos to get enough leverage to loosen it. I wasnt going to go through it twice so I installed a ARCO high torque marine starter, that one came with Allen head socket cap screws, much better. Good luck

djm
04-25-2008, 09:56 AM
I think I have to pull the manifold to get to the starter. I've done my own boat maintenence in the past but this bilge is rediculous. If you look at the pic you'll see the white shelves on either side. When I lay down and put my face where the battery would be I can't even see the spark plugs.

Does the manifold have studs for easy assembly or bolts?

djm
04-25-2008, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by 3wood
I had a 242ss, Whew Not a very fun job changing the starter. The biggest pain in the a$$ is there are two bolts that hold it on and one is right up against the flywheel cover. Unless they changed it on your newer engine. I couldnt get a socket on it or a box end of a combo wrench. Ended up grinding the end of I believe a 9/16 tubing wrench to where it just fit onto the bolt head and doubling up on the combos to get enough leverage to loosen it. I wasnt going to go through it twice so I installed a ARCO high torque marine starter, that one came with Allen head socket cap screws, much better. Good luck

I'm not looking forward to doing this job but I will try. Do you think it wouldn've been easier for you to pull the manifold first? Did you pull the plexiglass sliders out? I'm not a small guy I can barely lay down next to this engine.

3wood
04-25-2008, 11:07 AM
yea, it might be easier to pull the exhaust manifold on that side as long as the bolts come out ok, just unbolt the riser and bungie cord it back out of the way, on my engine standing facing the back of the boat it was on the left side back bottom of the engine. I would remove the aluminum channel that the sliding doors are held by that will give you more room. But yea I think removing the manifold would help alot, just be carefull not to round the head of the bolt up against the flywheel cover or you will wind up pulling the motor to get the bolt out. I first tried cutting the end a regular combo wrench off and It just spread open and wouldnt grip the bolt head which is why I had to use a tubing wrench because it was alot stouter. After what I went through to get it out, sore arms and scratched arms I wasnt going to put the suspect starter back in thats for sure.

djm
04-25-2008, 03:08 PM
Forgot to mention my engine is left hand. Will the starter will LH or are they all the same?

Fyhr Factor
04-25-2008, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by djm
Forgot to mention my engine is left hand. Will the starter will LH or are they all the same?
LH is a standard rotation..

teddy38
04-26-2008, 09:34 AM
my brothers boat had the same symptoms , sometimes wouldnt even turn over. i used jumper cables and connected positive side to battery and held on to starter while he turned key. it cranked realy fast. it turned out he had a bad positive cable going to the starter. we found it was actualy 2 cables bolted together and wrapped with black tape ware it couldnt be seen. you might just have a bad batery cable. . good luck

djm
04-26-2008, 01:49 PM
FIXED


I'm such a dumbass :lick: :lick: :lick:

Before tearing into the starter I sat there for a minute deciding what else to try. So I beat on the starter solenoid with a hammer and now she is a cranking beast.

And it gets worse. My girlfriend got the same advice from a co-worker so if you ask her SHE fixed it.

:laugher:

PJDiesel
04-26-2008, 01:59 PM
Godd. It's nice when it's something simple ;)

Fyhr Factor
04-26-2008, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by djm
FIXED


I'm such a dumbass :lick: :lick: :lick:

Before tearing into the starter I sat there for a minute deciding what else to try. So I beat on the starter solenoid with a hammer and now she is a cranking beast.

And it gets worse. My girlfriend got the same advice from a co-worker so if you ask her SHE fixed it.

:laugher:
Glad to hear it,,
BUT, I wouldn't get too excited just yet,
that rap was just a temporary fix, it may not always work for you next time..
Chances are, it will happen again, and when you least expect it.
Sounds like the problem was either the solenoid did'nt fully engage or the starter motor brushes were stuck and not making contact with the armature, either way, you'll have to deal with it again sooner or later..

hyper1
04-26-2008, 03:41 PM
and it could still be the cable where it connects to the solenoid, and or the starter could have a bad ground and you just corrected it for a short time.


Dont jump for joy, work on your toy!!!

aquaforce
04-26-2008, 05:02 PM
UUhhh, ask her if she wants to be the one to hit it all the time when it doesn't start.

My first boat had that symptom too. It was fine if the engine was cold but after running for a while and getting to temp it would only click click click. Had to wait till the engine cooled all the way down then it might click or it might start. Had to get the starter fixed.


What I'm saying in a round about way is..... You only verified that the problem IS the starter and or solenoid. Now you should get it fixed or the next time it might not start with a hammer tap.
That is how we get a starter going one last time to keep from pushing a vehicle into the shop, but we still have to replace the starter.


Good luck

djm
04-26-2008, 08:53 PM
As much as I hate to admit it I know I still have to replace the starter.

It's been a bad luck sorta week for me. The A/C in my daily driver took a dump, I got sideswiped by an agressive driver the same day, and my truck blew a brake line the next day- all that came before the starter issue came into play. Not a big deal to me but with all of that in a few days I'm just glad to hear the boat run.

And the girlfriend will definitely be swingin that hammer until I replace the starter :winker:

She may even pay the tow bill too....doubt it though.

aquaforce
04-27-2008, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by djm


I got sideswiped by an agressive driver the same day,





:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: and I thought Atlanta traffic was bad. Did you see in the news? A young dude driving a red honda at high speed here sideswiped some cars and caused a fatal accident and then he kept on going to leave the scene. :dead1: :dead1: :dead1:

cmchevy
04-28-2008, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by cmchevy
if all your hearing is a click, then you have a bad solenoid on your starter. Take it out and bench test your starter and noid. Then if its bad go get a new one. if there is water in your motor it should still turn over.

Called it!

djm
04-28-2008, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by aquaforce
:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: and I thought Atlanta traffic was bad. Did you see in the news? A young dude driving a red honda at high speed here sideswiped some cars and caused a fatal accident and then he kept on going to leave the scene. :dead1: :dead1: :dead1:

I didn;t hear that story but we have that going on here sometimes. Lately we've had a lot of pedestrians getting hit while crossing highways where they aren't supposed to. Last week I witnessed an old man barely make it across. He must've had a bad hip or knee because he was limping bigtime as he was running. Luckily, it was a cop who almost hit him and so he drove him across.

I'm leaving for Atlanta today on business. Hope I don't get sideswiped there too :shocked:


Thanks to everyone for hooking me up on this. If I ever meet a fellow SWer the first beer is on me.

djm
05-03-2008, 01:13 PM
I was in atlanta last week on business but I finally got around to pulling the starter today. Not that bad of a job to get it out. I didn't have to pull the manifold either. On the 242SS I had to remove the storage divider and the rear buldhead but that's just a few screws. I had to work for each starter bolt but it went as planned.

I picked up a new WPS starter from a local shop. It's got a 90 day warranty. They say it's a great product and they've been using them for years.

Any input on WPS starters?

I'm off to installing the new one before it starts to rain. Wish me luck.

aquaforce
05-03-2008, 01:33 PM
I see you survived Atl, good luck with the starter. Now you can put up the hammer :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:

djm
05-03-2008, 02:34 PM
WOW that went in easy!

Cranks over FAST... on one battery.

Now it's miller time :D


I never was a big fan of Atlanta. But I was in a nice hotel within walking distance of NY Prime, Mortons, and Ruth's Chris. :chickenda

Not looking forward to posting my weight on the SW weight loss challenge this week :laugh:

Fyhr Factor
05-03-2008, 04:07 PM
I'm glad it went well for you, so now you should be all set for awhile I hope. :)

djm
05-03-2008, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Fyhr Factor
I'm glad it went well for you, so now you should be all set for awhile I hope. :)

Yup I'm all set.... except for sanding/painting the corrosion on my outdrive, polishing the boat inside and out, re-locating the engine hatch ram, putting in a new tachometer, replacing the potta potty, mounting the new FORMULA logos I bought, and touching up the bottom paint :D

Fyhr Factor
05-03-2008, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by djm
Yup I'm all set.... except for sanding/painting the corrosion on my outdrive, polishing the boat inside and out, re-locating the engine hatch ram, putting in a new tachometer, replacing the potta potty, mounting the new FORMULA logos I bought, and touching up the bottom paint :D

:laugher: :laugher: I know,
It seems like it never ends, 1 thing at a time I guess... :)

aquaforce
05-05-2008, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by djm
Yup I'm all set.... except for sanding/painting the corrosion on my outdrive, polishing the boat inside and out, re-locating the engine hatch ram, putting in a new tachometer, replacing the potta potty, mounting the new FORMULA logos I bought, and touching up the bottom paint :D




I'll be glad when my list gets that short :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :winker: