A good healthy open debate

So is this stuff something you use all summer, or just in the spring to help burn off the old stock fuel? What do you mean is "bad gas" after running fresh tanks throughout the summer? I guess I have never seen a problem. I full up in the spring with fresh gas, new filters and let 'er rip.

Jeff,
I don't suggest you "out" this new member and who he is, but I would like to know that YOU checked into who he is. I would hate to think he is a dis-gruntled Ezorb employee or a Stabil salesman trying to make a sale. We are all walking on egg-shells regarding the Ethanol issue and are subject to be taken advantage of right now.....(I feel so vulnerable :nah: right now!) :bigsmile:

Personaly, I don't believe in these types of products and don't spend any money on them.

I have read where alcohol dumped in your tank will get rid of water. The alcohol you keep in your medicine cabnet.

What is the difference between any of these products. Gas line antifreeze (HEET) is like 99 cents a bottle and is said to get same results right? Get the water mixed into the gas and let it run through the fuel system rather than freeze solid in the tank or lines...That stuff seemed to be a common preventative measure that EVERYBODY did 20 years ago when I was a kid pumping full serve gas at Amoco

This is Gail from Cocoa Beach, Florida.
Sorry I didn't get to this thread sooner- it's been a busy week.
First, Ralph "The Outboard Wizard" is a BRP (OMC) Evinrude Dealer, Mechanic and Certified BRP/OMC Service Station in Long Island, New York since 1979.

He's been in business since 1979, online presence since about 2000.

Ralph's Primary Shop is located at:
Lindenhurst Outboard Service Inc.
305 E. Montauk Hway.
Lindenhurst NY 11757

Ralph and I work closely together on "ethanol" issues.
My expertise is more in politics, laws, history, science, etc.
Ralph focuses on "ethanol" mechanical stuff, eg. engine effects of ethanol, precautions, repairs, etc.

We've been trying to educate boaters on the truth about ethanol for awhile.
* With necessary precautions and correct information, most boaters should be able to manage using ethanol blend fuels with no major side effects.

In quick summary, most recent problems with ethanol blend gasoline in marine engines is due to:

- 2005/06 Laws that have mandated widespread use within U.S; Plus pump labeling (that alcohol in gas) still not required in all States -
Note: some people don't even realize yet, that they're now using alcohol blend gas in their engines.
- Legal safe content (and all manufacturer warranties) = Max 10% ethanol.
Since ethanol is added at pump (and not monitored closely), several states have been selling gas with dangerous amts' of alcohol - as high as 40% was noted at some pumps in NY, NJ, CT and other locations past year.
- E10 shelf life is only 90-100 days. Will phase-separate (PS)/water-contaminant (WC) under ideal conditions after only 3 months…
- Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) is an excellent "cleanser", "drying-agent", "antifreeze", "solvent", etc. and most important has amazing abilities to absorb large quantities of water.
Now banned, conventional MTBE gasoline blends did not absorb water into fuel, and had a shelf life of well over a year.
- Certain fiberglass tanks (manufactured prior to 1993) can not tolerate alcohol gas-
These older fiberglass tanks will disintegrate/dissolve from alcohol - this dissolved resin material will destroy your engine.
- Similar problems with certain parts (especially plastic and rubber) for some older engines. eg. parts will dry out, melt, degrade, disintegrate etc.
- The cleansing/solvent/drying ability of alcohol (ethanol) will also cleanse and dissolve, rust, dirt and other matter in older (not-properly maintained) engines. This released "gunk" will travel through engine and clog filters, carbs, injectors, etc.

Sorry I'm starting to get carried away writing too much about ethanol's effects and necessary precautions to avoid alcohol fuel related issues in marine engines…

Because of the above and many other (negative) effects of ethanol fuel in marine engines, new products have popped-up during past year, with false claims that they can "fix" or "repair" PS/WC ethanol fuel - Not true.

ONLY FRESH, HIGH QUALITY (E10) GASOLINE with original composition will protect your engine from unnecessary/avoidable damage.

(Keep in mind that gas contains about 300 to 1000 different ingredients/chemicals - ethanol is one single ingredient and once phase-separated there's a lot more than alcohol and water molecules that has been distorted.)

I'll post more on that too- later,

As for our (Ralph and my) intentions/purpose…
lack of knowledge and using risky products could only help (profit) Ralph,
since he "repairs" those engines that have been damaged by alcohol's effects…

Sounded like someone above was unfairly stating Ralph has some hidden profit-making agenda for revealing the truth/facts of these numerous new questionable products…

Like I've told Ralph repeatedly, if someone doesn't want to accept the truth/facts/warnings, that's there problem, you'll fix their engine later and be smiling on the way to the bank…

Example: He has had many foolish customers who don't accept his advice and "refuse" to dispose of PS/WC gas that's in engines he just finished repairing (they don't want to throw away few hundred dollars of gas) - he KNOWS he'll see them again with more engine damage, filter replacement, stalled or stranded road calls (from running on that bad gas) in very near future. They're problem, not his.

Same story for people who insist on using "new" additive products repeatedly, instead of following simple acceptable good fuel management (eg. replacing gas every 2-6 weeks, use water-sep filters, 2+4, etc.)-
They whine and argue about how so and so told them this and that about some new miracle product and how great it is…Fine with us, we don't have the time to debate this nonsense and marketing gimmicks - Waste your money adding E, K, S, and etc. to your marine tank, mess-up your engine (life and performance) - Won't hurt us.
-----------------
I started educating people solely because I was outraged by the lack of EPA and Government warnings/info to the marine public.
(Mandates of 2005-06 to increase distribution of E10)…

EPA and others have warnings, bulletins, research studies over past 10-20 years available online to marine public regarding ethanol, so how come that info is still not known/understood by so many boaters??

While I totally support renewable fuels, including using ethanol (corn, sugar, grass, cellulose or other grains that make alcohol fuel) for environmental and domestic reasons (less dependence on foreign fuels), I feel boaters should be well-informed on how to prevent problems (precautions) and manage E10/E85.

It's solely because of lack of knowledge that so many boaters have experienced problems with E10…
Eg. winter storage rules have changed full vs. empty, since e10 only good for 90 days.
Boaters commonly don't fill-up as frequently as cars (again will increase risks with e10),
Boats live in a water environment, tanks not sealed as well as cars…again causes boat engines greater risk and unnecessary damage.

Recently a portable Alcohol Fuel Test Kit was developed to check percent of alcohol, we both distribute this product. If the laws were improved to protect consumers there would be no need for alcohol fuel test kits.
I'm sure you realize that selling these kits (developed by the FAA/EEA) is not our motivation for education/discussing ethanol.
They sell for only about $25 to 30/each and are re-usable.

If all states required pump labeling (they don't) and if all stations were required to monitor % ethanol added to pump is within legal limit (10 % or lower) there would be NO NEED for alcohol fuel test kits.

In the meantime, I am keeping detailed records of all people (that test fuel) and have found illegal, unsafe amounts (Name, location of pump, date tested/bought, etc.)
It's shocking how many stations continue to sell e10 with amounts as high as 20-40% ethanol.
(Over 10% Illegal and will cause damage and/or performance issues in most engines).

I hope your readers too will notify me of (ethanol engine) problems and stations with illegal amounts.
BTW, Using over 10% alcohol fuel will invalidate ALL major marine manufacturer warranties - Check your owner's manuals, many older engines manuals/warranties state "0" "No" alcohol fuels - and those engines may have parts that need to be replaced before you can safely switchover to E10.
As for those unfortunate people (over 10,000) with fiberglass tanks not designed to withstand alcohol, the solutions aren't easy or cheap -(replace tanks, add second layer/lining, etc.).