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Speedwake

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
For years the BIG 3 Car Companies have been telling congress and the states that the 37.3 MPG by 2011 requirement would bankrupt the companies.

Now their going to go bankrupt UNLESS they can meet those requirements and have agreed to drop their lawsuits against states like California which were requiring them to meet federal MPG standards.

In their plans submitted to Congress that ALL SAID they could meet the requirements by 2011 and probably sooner.

Why have they been lying?

It's amazing how responsive they can be when the Sword of Damacles is hanging over their heads.

go figgur. :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
#5 ·
Regulation smegulation, I wonder what the govt answer will be after they ruin cars. They already ruined the housing, banking and economy!!!
 
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#7 ·
Not Right said:
two meetings with the execs and Sen Dodd thinks he knows more about their business than the CEO's. :rolleyes:

I have high hopes for the new government run auto companies. :(
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Senator Dodd is an arrogant jerk. I wonder what kind of car he drives or for that matter, who many senators drive American?
 
#10 ·
UP_ROKTOY said:
Good luck, the governments emissions standards requirements are strangling diesel engines. You see its a catch 22 world they are stuck in.
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Yet Volkswagon can pull it off. I just dont think the market for small diesels is there. It would have been but now that diesel is $1 more than gas there is little advantage. I own a Jetta TDI and love it but it costs me more to drive than a similar gas engine car. It will last longer but a new Toyota would run forever as well.
Between the EPA and the Unions, Americans and American policies have done more to destroy the big three than the competitors could have hoped for.

I wonder how Harley Davidson will weather this storm?
 
#11 ·
Mr. Demeanor said:
Yet Volkswagon can pull it off. I just dont think the market for small diesels is there. It would have been but now that diesel is $1 more than gas there is little advantage. I own a Jetta TDI and love it but it costs me more to drive than a similar gas engine car. It will last longer but a new Toyota would run forever as well.
Between the EPA and the Unions, Americans and American policies have done more to destroy the big three than the competitors could have hoped for.

I wonder how Harley Davidson will weather this storm?
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Volkswagen "COULD" pull it off. They still "CAN" but you'll see that the emissions requirements are strangling the economy this car is capable of.

The EPA recently rated the 2009 Jetta TDI at 30 mpg city and 41 mpg highway, which were disappointing numbers for Volkswagen. It has since hired an independent, third-party certifier, AMCI, to ascertain what it refers to as the Jetta's "true fuel economy". AMCI came back with a better rating (surprise!) of 38 mpg city and 44 mpg highway. Whether or not you think it's fair for Volkswagen to go around the EPA in search of a higher fuel economy rating, we were just as surprised at how low the EPA numbers were. We're eager to get one in the Autoblog Garage ASAP for a review so we can test its "true fuel economy" for ourselves.
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You just said it yourself that even with the INCREDIBLE mileage these cars pull down it's not currently cost effective to pay MORE for gas and MORE for the car then it is to just buy the gas equivalent. Plus with the american publics perception of diesel engines and diesel fuels it will always be an uphill battle.

Diesel trucks are popular because they provide the power needed to get a job done.

Diesel cars are not because not enough are offered and most people don't want to deal with the hassle of trying to find diesel fuel which is not readily available at every filling station as it is in Europe.

I'd love a new Ford Focus with the diesel they offer for the European market!! But unfortunately we wont see it here.

2 reasons.

1. It won't sell
2. Emissions standards won't allow it to be efficient enough to offset the added cost of the engine and the fuel make the purchase justifiable to most.
 
#12 ·
Mr. Demeanor said:
Yet Volkswagon can pull it off. I just dont think the market for small diesels is there. It would have been but now that diesel is $1 more than gas there is little advantage. I own a Jetta TDI and love it but it costs me more to drive than a similar gas engine car. It will last longer but a new Toyota would run forever as well.
Between the EPA and the Unions, Americans and American policies have done more to destroy the big three than the competitors could have hoped for.

I wonder how Harley Davidson will weather this storm?
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As you can see it took some creative marketing to pull it off in 2007 and a completely new engine to pull it off in 2008.

2006 Volkswagen Jetta TDI continues on into 2007

2006 Volkswagen Jetta TDI continues on into 2007
Saturday August 5, 2006
There's been a lot of speculation about the future of the diesel-powered Volkswagen Jetta TDI here in the US. Changes in regulations related to our switch-over to lower-sulfer diesel fuel are making it more difficult for car companies to sell diesels in 2007, so VW has found an innovative (and legal) way around the problem: Sell them as 2006 models. In the 45 states where diesel Jettas are currently sold, buyers will find "special edition" 2006 Jetta TDIs selling side-by-side with the 2007 gasoline-powered cars. Meanwhile, Volkswagen is apparently working on a new common-rail turbodiesel engine which will appear in US-market cars in calendar year 2008.

I'm a big fan of diesel cars because of their fuel economy, excellent driving characteristics, and ability to run on renewable fuel (biodiesel). Most of the About.com Cars test drive team is of the same ilk; check out Philip's test drive of the 2006 Volkswagen Jetta TDI (aptly titled "Who needs hybrids?") as well as Colin's past test drives of the 2005 VW Passat TDI and 2004 VW Jetta TDI. -- Aaron Gold
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I'm not against diesel cars by any means, but there is some reasoning and I don't think its all that bad of reasoning as to why the US automakers wont do it. Rumor has it they would like to, but it's not feasible as a money maker at this time.

Half ton diesel trucks are coming soon however.....
 
#14 ·
Speedwake said:
For years the BIG 3 Car Companies have been telling congress and the states that the 37.3 MPG by 2011 requirement would bankrupt the companies.

It's amazing how responsive they can be when the Sword of Damacles is hanging over their heads.

go figgur. :confused: :confused: :confused:
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I had a 1983 AMC Renault Allaince as my first car, and it would get 41 mpg. Around 30ish with me driving tho, but that was wide open through all the gears to redline up to, and beyond the speed limit.

There was a thread on this site with a you tube link to an old Dodge Omni commercial, which listed a 49mpg highway figure (although I do not beleive that was correct).

I currently own a 1995 Dodge Neon 4 door, 5 speed that will get 38 mpg consistantly.

So my question is why did they stay the same, or get worse as technology got better?
 
#15 ·
The Big three chased the wants of america. Instead of shaping the industry they reacted to the industry... Gas low, America want big truck big tires big vehicles... Ok so they build them. Now america no afford big truck big tires big fuel bill, ... big three no have nothing to sell that compete with imports... hmmm, make big trouble for big three.

On a side not its sad watching the NFKL last week and Caddilac is advertising its escalade on sale for 60k after incentives.... Every gm Commercial was caddy and great 45 - 60 k deals... Are you f in kiddin me... who the f is buying that crap now in this economy. Those that are are not effected by this iless than stellar economy will still buy em anyhow...
trying to turn in an escalade lease on an 06 they want 26k buy out... at auction they are hitting 19k. I offered 22, they said no we have to take it in and sell it at auction for about 19.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
jb said:
The Big three chased the wants of america. Instead of shaping the industry they reacted to the industry... Gas low, America want big truck big tires big vehicles... Ok so they build them. Now america no afford big truck big tires big fuel bill, ... big three no have nothing to sell that compete with imports... hmmm, make big trouble for big three.

On a side not its sad watching the NFKL last week and Caddilac is advertising its escalade on sale for 60k after incentives.... Every gm Commercial was caddy and great 45 - 60 k deals... Are you f in kiddin me... who the f is buying that crap now in this economy. Those that are are not effected by this iless than stellar economy will still buy em anyhow...
trying to turn in an escalade lease on an 06 they want 26k buy out... at auction they are hitting 19k. I offered 22, they said no we have to take it in and sell it at auction for about 19.
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I saw that Red Tag Sale too - FIRST EVER! - WOO HOO!!!

Are they stupid? (don't answer that) - if anyone is wondering why they're in trouble just look at what they're spending their advertising dollars on? - wasted on a red tag sale for a 60k sport ute --- give me a f'in break! - how idiotic.

I have some bad news for them - there are going to be new 2008 cars sitting on lots for the next three years unless they take dramatic steps to sell them. NO ONE IS BUYING AND ONCE CREDIT EASES WHO IS GOING TO WANT A NEW ONE CAR THAT'S TWO MODEL YEARS OLD?

THESE GUYS ARE IN BIG TROUBLE....

Karen had a great idea. Want to get the economy moving and sell some cars?

OFFER THEM ALL AT HALF STICKER PRICE UNTIL YEAR END.

Buyers will come out of the woodwork!!!!

take the write down and take the cash and move on.

sometimes you need to cut your losses instead of waiting for uncle sam to save your pathetic ***.

...just my humble .02...
 
#17 ·
Speedwake said:


Karen had a great idea. Want to get the economy moving and sell some cars?

OFFER THEM ALL AT HALF STICKER PRICE UNTIL YEAR END.

Buyers will come out of the woodwork!!!!

take the write down and take the cash and move on.

sometimes you need to cut your losses instead of waiting for uncle sam to save your pathetic ***.

...just my humble .02...
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this is true, just like handing them money, however it does not solve the root of the problem. The UAW is so stubborn and the Manufactures cannot do anything about it.

I would buy a rig at 1/2 off :)
 
#18 ·
hp500efi said:
this is true, just like handing them money, however it does not solve the root of the problem. The UAW is so stubborn and the Manufactures cannot do anything about it.

I would buy a rig at 1/2 off :)
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I personally do not think the UAW is the root cause of their financial issue. Take a step back to the first meeting the execs had with the governm't asking for help. They flew in on private jets, I feel it is those people with their careless spending (buying jets, ect) that put the big three under. Just as the lending institutions, once the "bailout" was official those top brass went on a $400k "retreat." Hold those accountable, and hang em!

Maybe Chrysler should look back to the 1980's and dig up some notes as to how Lee Iacocca saved them then. Not that I want another K-car, but would be better than my taxes to skyrocket.

Ironic that the mini van that saved Chrysler is now one of the most expensive vehicles in their line up. A little common sense goes a long way.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Speedwake said:
Karen had a great idea. Want to get the economy moving and sell some cars?

OFFER THEM ALL AT HALF STICKER PRICE UNTIL YEAR END.

Buyers will come out of the woodwork!!!!

take the write down and take the cash and move on.

sometimes you need to cut your losses instead of waiting for uncle sam to save your pathetic ***.

...just my humble .02...
Click to expand...
That idea makes sense. Banks are writing their sh#t to zero. This would only be 50%.
My first car was a green '74 AMC Gremlin. I don't remember what the mileage was, but we called it the cockroach because we couldn't kill it!
 
#20 ·
What I don't get is that my '63 Falcon with 144 six and 3 on the tree got high 20's regular mixed driving and over 30 MPG on the highway. One of the guys at work just got a new Honda Fit and was excited that he got 36 MPG highway on a recent trip. To me 36 MPG doesn't seem like much for a car slightly smaller than my Falcon, especially considering the fuel injection (supposedly more efficient), and overdrive transmission. I figure if I kept that Falcon and put a T5 behind the six it would be pushing at least mid 30's.

In any event, big 3 need to start selling some of their european cars here in the States. 60-80 MPG from small diesel cars comparable to the gas stuff we have here that gets 35 MPG. Also there are a lot of cool relatively efficient go-fast cars in Australia. Big 3 would do well to introduce some of those in the States as well.

Of course none of that will happen due to the EPA. After all, the whole SUV craze started due to CAFE regulations killing off the station wagon. Station wagons couldn't achieve the high MPG numbers CAFE required, so big 3 stopped making them. Instead they made trucks into station wagon equivalents only at significantly worse MPG since they have worse aurodynamics, are heavier, and have heavier drivelines. So we traded full size station wagons at 20-25 MPG highway for SUV's getting half that. Brilliant.

Throw in all the emissions restrictions and you kill MPG despite these newer "fuel efficient" technologies being developed. You get fewer parts per million but since you burn more gas you are putting out more millions. What good is that?

If you ask me, the best thing for big 3 would be for them to all file Chapter 11, and under 11 they can get rid of the unions. Save a lot of money there and auto workers can still be paid resonably well. Better to take a pay cut until return to profitability thannot have a job tomorrow. Then take advantage of low gas prices and move all the SUVs and luxury trucks off the lots. Take that money and use it to develop and build something more suitable for the current economy. A cheap quality econo-box that actually gets good MPG. Or import the cars selling in Europe and Australia, and adapt where necessary for US requirements.
 
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