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Official: michigans west coast event thread

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#2,301 ·
RSCHAP1 said:
Millions of gallons a day to the Nestle bottled water plant in Mecosta County:(
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Jeez, this water thing is an emotional thing. Let's think this through.

390 BILLION gallons for every inch of water depth at the top in Lake Michigan. Nestle does millions of gallons a day you say. How many millions?

For reference: a million gallons a day, at a 24 hour steady rate, is about 700 gallons a minute.

Let's call it 10,000,000 gallons a day, or 7,000 gallons a minute.
To put it another way, a gallon of water is about 8.33 pounds. So Nestle would have to ship 83,000,000 pounds of water out every day. That's 1,983 semi trucks per day, not counting packaging and pallets. So 10,000,000 is way a way high estimate, but let's follow it through, at that level of removal, to the next step.

390,000,000,000 X 12" lost this year = 4,680,000,000,000 gallons lost via Nestle Waters. 4,680,000,000,000/10,000,000 = 468,000 days or 1,292 years of Nestle usage, to drop the lake the 12 inches we are down now. And that doesn't count the 7 inches we were down last year.

I do not believe the issue to be Nestle Waters.

Probably more likely just nature via little cloud cover this year, a weak winter last year, below average rain fall, and then non-natural items like Lake Superior level controlled higher at the locks, and then maybe the problem at the St Claire, all add up.
 
Discussion starter · #2,302 ·
well the season is over for me. got out on saturday for a quick burn the rest of the fuel run. witch sure did not take long, about 15 mins and i was watching the gauges close just getting back to the truck. on this low water thing, holy cow, i have not used the ramp at the gh condo storage (behind grand isle) since july 4th. it is down at least a foot since then. we have put in up to a 48' cat in there last year. saturday i had my boat past the dock, the fairing was at the end of the dock and i still had a hard time getting it on the trailer. i hate to wish for a big winter for more water, because i hate cold and snow. so here is hoping for a warm rainy winter.

todd
 
#2,303 ·
I originally saw a figure of 400 gallons per minute when the plant was first proposed.
That was upped, then more from sources outside Mecosta county began getting tapped and trucked in too.
I thought I heard over 1,000 gallons a minute.
While I agree that the low lake levels of the Great Lakes aren't altered 100% by Nestle's operation, I think the water in our area is a great resource and should be protected far more.
I am guessing by your stance that you may benefit from the plant. Maybe have a job there or created by it. That is good. Maybe a stretch for me to imagine that, but I cannot understand support for having local water tapped and sold away otherwise.
I surely understand the need for business and jobs, I DO live in Michigan too. But I don't think it should come at the price of our water. I do not think anyone can argue that sooner or later it is only so abundant. We are lucky because we have such a great amount, but there is a limit. What happens when we find that?
Are the bottlers going to use their profits to replenish what is gone for good??? I doubt it. More like pulled up tent stakes and nice to know ya...
As said, I do admit that there are FAR greater things effecting the lake levels; weather obviously, the dredging and controls put in place by our governments, and other issues. But not a fan of the sell off.
Maybe you wanted to impress another issue is greater and I misinterpreted things, sorry. I am curious if that is the case. The dredging in St. Clair looks like a big issue and possible cause. Maybe youwanted to reinforce that. Sorry to sidetrack if so.
I would be curious to know more about your feelings. Especially why if you do have support for the bottling...
I see your point with the figures, but the data I have read does show some HUGE amounts of water being bottled there. I still resent the way our former Governor Moleface was as wishy washy on the issue as any other. It's OK, no it's not...probably still could not issue a definitive yes or no answer on this or any other topic:(
Thanks for the discussion:)
 
#2,305 ·
Nope, not in the water business and have no shares of Nestle. I am in the food business though - proteins.

1000 gallons a minute is nothing in comparison to other causes. (see the math)

Not all the beer water Michiganers (Michiganians?) drink and pee out comes from the Lake Michigan watershed, in fact, very little does, and I am guessing the equivalent of that is drunk and peed back into the lake by the inhabitants in the watershed. And Michigan wine really sucks, so most of it drank comes from California or even further off lands. There's a lot of pee-ing going on of liquids not from around here.

The largest issue, I believe, would be the evaporation this year because of low cloud cover, including last winter.

Then there was no replenishment through snow or rain.

Yes, I believe outflow has been affected by USACE's dredging of the river, thus reducing lake levels. But if that were 100% the cause, then Erie would be much higher than normal. Erie is shallow and to hold all that extra water, there would be a whole buncha flooding going on.

I also believe the Chicago River reversal is a bunch of crap too.

If we can get a very harsh and snowy winter, along with a cool wet spring and lots of cloud cover, I'd bet we'll be good next year. That's about the only thing that will help the issue. Turning off Nestle would have maybe 1/107th of an inch (12 inches divided by 1292 years of usage by Nestle) more water in one year.
 
#2,307 ·
waybomb said:
Nope, not in the water business and have no shares of Nestle. I am in the food business though - proteins.

1000 gallons a minute is nothing in comparison to other causes. (see the math)

Not all the beer water Michiganers (Michiganians?) drink and pee out comes from the Lake Michigan watershed, in fact, very little does, and I am guessing the equivalent of that is drunk and peed back into the lake by the inhabitants in the watershed. And Michigan wine really sucks, so most of it drank comes from California or even further off lands. There's a lot of pee-ing going on of liquids not from around here.

The largest issue, I believe, would be the evaporation this year because of low cloud cover, including last winter.

Then there was no replenishment through snow or rain.

Yes, I believe outflow has been affected by USACE's dredging of the river, thus reducing lake levels. But if that were 100% the cause, then Erie would be much higher than normal. Erie is shallow and to hold all that extra water, there would be a whole buncha flooding going on.

I also believe the Chicago River reversal is a bunch of crap too.

If we can get a very harsh and snowy winter, along with a cool wet spring and lots of cloud cover, I'd bet we'll be good next year. That's about the only thing that will help the issue. Turning off Nestle would have maybe 1/107th of an inch (12 inches divided by 1292 years of usage by Nestle) more water in one year.
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Thanks very much for sharing all the info!
:)
I certainly think that there are lots of factors all adding up to what is becoming a "perfect storm" all draining our lakes. Nobody ever wakes up until it is too late all the time:(
While the bottling plant may only be a "drop in the bucket" effect the big lakes, I can't help but think nearby neighbors have to be worried about their water table and home wells...
With all the driving I do to work and back, I just hope the rain/snow falls in the big lakes not on the roads (that isn't too much of a request is it??)
:)
:)
The lake I live on had it's dam lowered last fall due to a few "fuddy duddies" wanting to lessen their "beach erosion". Their lowering the dam and our weather was a terrible for everyone. By the time everyone ripped their props up, and couldn't get their boats of their lifts...it was too late. We still have not recovered. Maybe if it is a good winter we will see levels raise. Fingers crossed for everyone.
 
#2,308 ·
RSCHAP1 said:
Acceleration or handling any different ith the prop change?

I would have thought more power with cooler denser air, and colder water temps would "firm" up the lake like salt water making everything more bouyant and helping too:)
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Scott it is pulling more RPM but i think the slip went up. It pulls just as good as the 5b BUT the 4B has more vibration i think i really need like a 17.5 26 5 blade 20 degree rake and the only way to get one of those is to shell out about 10G. :eek:
 
#2,311 ·
baronmarine said:
weatherman just said waves up to 15' on the lake today, anyone going out to the beach to check them out? i'm thinking about it after work. love seeing those big waves in the channel.

todd
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Todd,
I am thinking about heading out there this afternoon, as long as something doesn't "blow" up on me today! :laugher:

Kind of looks like the boating season is over, huh?

S
 
#2,317 ·
raizor - the Jaws in Ohio is the newer one ..55' MTI with quad motors .. similar paint job. This one is the 46 Skater with twin 1250's that held the Superboat record years back. Mantained by Wesco in Jenison mi. Think the record was around 160mph.

rschap - I was told those are Sage#8 drives from a co. in Ohio (SCS) best of a Speedmaster #6 and an Arneson.

steve - they made quite a few speed passes out on the Big Lake and a few on Lake Mac before rain moved in. When I can hear a boat over my Husqvarna backpack it's time to check it out.
 
#2,320 ·
echap said:
Very cool pic's. I took my boat to get it winterized today, then will wax and clean this weekend, then off for a long winters nap :-(
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They guys at the dock give me crap for wheeling out my boat at the end of the season...

I'll be laughing when it's nice next year and they are doing it to theirs and I am boating after a quick rinse :D
 
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