[UP_ROKTOY]

Going on looks alone I like the sutphen better, I like both boats, but the sutphen would get more attention from me if I was in the market. That blue boat is stunning.

 

[mattyboy]

got to see the sutphen in action yesterday along with some other names in the 24 and under vee performance boats sorry Carl no Donzis on this run I did call a friend with a 22zx but he was not home .
so it was a 24 Pantera,a 22 velocityOB,the Sutphen and the cig 19. here's a pic of us idling out of the arm

Thanks to Morgan for the chance to drive and ride in the new boat it really is a great little boat

I wanted to take a ton of pictures but I got to tell you to keep up with the sutphen in a small block 19 cig we had to go all out and hold on . plus watching the other 2 boats run was pretty amazing. the Pantera and velocity tore around the lake at 80 mph. not seen to often as during the season the 45mph is enforced on our lake.

I am a little rusty and my seat time as been down this season. I was a little nervous taking the helm of a new boat and wasn't trying to push it a first. The boat was very predictable and stable with no bad manners at all. after finding the sweet spot for the trim it ran at 50 55 mph pretty easily with out the total concentration needed at those speeds in my classic . the ride is pretty much the same at 45 55 and 65 which is nice. My 16 was pretty tame at 45, was getting loose at 55 and white knuckles at 60 .

to me very different from my donzi classic expierence, a very much in the boat feel with a long nose out in front that gives you a feel of a much bigger ride. I was worried about the fairing and sitting down in the boat and my visibilty, but even with my short fat azz my
vision was not obstructed at all, it was impaired a little when my sunglasses blew off at one of our 65 mph passes

the boat ran 68 mph with me and Kenny in it we are both well over 225 lb each it ran very well even though the lake was not real rough.
I did have it in the confused crosswakes of the pantera the velocity and the cig not to mention the other traffic on the lake. it handled those bigger wakes very well.

it is a great little boat that impressed both Kenny and myself. the layout is very functional, and the seats even the rear ones give you support and a secure feeling .
The color scheme on this one is very simple and classic even the girls who watched from Kenny's deck commented on it.

it is a quality boat that shines on many fronts, looks, ride,performance,bang for the buck.

anyone looking for a smaller vee go fast has to take a look at this one.

Thanks Morgan and crew we had a blast a great late season afternoon of boating. Sorry we didn't get to spend more time with you.

 

[mattyboy]

3 boats heading out to rip it up a bit

 

[mattyboy]

one more

 

[mattyboy]

I left a few observations out, the boat didn't porpoise and didn't roll hard onto either side when re entering after crossing a bigger wake. the controls were laid out well and very comfortable to operate. a little learning curve for me as I am used to one stick . the gauges were laid out well as easy to see. and the boat was not sluggish to respond when asked to turn or accelerate.

I let the marine engineers talk about the benefits of getting up and riding on the pad over a rounded keel boat rolling from side to side trying to find it's sweet spot.

the flooring was very easy on bare feet

 

[MahopacMarine]

Matty,

Thank you for your observations and comments. I am also very happy that Morgan was able to get out there with a very laid back atmosphere and let you take the wheel.

You and Ken are welcome to run one anytime we see ya!

Tom

 

[Rattlesnake Jake]

Matty,

Thank you for your observations and comments. I am also very happy that Morgan was able to get out there with a very laid back atmosphere and let you take the wheel.

You and Ken are welcome to run one anytime we see ya!

Tom

Hey Tom, drag the Sutphen up here Sunday, we're going to be out playing..

Jake

 

[MSU]

I love the blue

 

[mjw930]

Well if we are going to drop names, Roadtrip just sunk who knows how many thousands of $ into his 22 Classic rather than switch to a Sutphen: http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58034

Donzi Classic - There is no substitute!

It is not as simple as which boat goes faster with a particular engine.

No, it's not all about which goes faster with a particular engine but that's a very big factor.

I did the 22 Classic thing and I have seen the way the Donzi is built up close and personal and it's simply not a race inspired design intended to be run at 80+ mph speeds. It's a very nice 65 mph performance boat but that's about it. As far as handling is concerned the Donzi is middle of the pack, better than many but far from high performance. BTW, Stuffing 525 HP into a stock 22C of any vintage is a recipe for disaster IMHO but it's your life and your money.

This boat, OTOH, appears to be much more along the lines of the old small race boats that were designed and built in the 60's and 70's but discarded once the builders realized they could make more money building 35'+ boats for the wall street crowd.

When you consider the construction of the 21 Sutphen. A proper cored hull, side and deck properly secured to the hull, a race quality stringer system (not 1/2 plywood with single lap seams), proper bulkheads and an cockpit built up from the hull, not down from the deck you have a very compelling little package.

Add to that a proven hull mildly redesigned with a moderate reverse chine and a small pad to assist in lift and stability I imagine you end up with a "no surprises" hull design that can take almost anything you can throw at it and not require fiberglass work in a year of two. I mean look at it's construction compared to ANYTHING else in this size.

100% Vinyl Ester Resin
Hand Laid Bi & Tri-axle Fiberglass
Full Length Stringer System
Fully Cored Hull & Deck
20 Degree Graduated Deadrise Hull
Deck Thru Bolted & Glassed to Hull
Competition Style Rigging

This is race boat stuff, something you will never get from a mass production shop.

So, lets summarize, better built, better handling, faster and less expensive........ Yep it's a lot more than just faster with the same power :laugher:

 

[bajabusa]

AWESOME!! the blue one looks like a Viper!!

 

[eyeinstine]

That blue one is just plain old sweet...
Tom, gonna have one of these running in the fun run down the hudson?! Bet that theres a nice 'chop' that day to put it through its paces... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[MahopacMarine]

That blue one is just plain old sweet...
Tom, gonna have one of these running in the fun run down the hudson?! Bet that theres a nice 'chop' that day to put it through its paces... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

We will definitely have them both out on the Hudson on the 24th!!!
See ya then Eye!!

 

[CC]

No, it's not all about which goes faster with a particular engine but that's a very big factor.

I did the 22 Classic thing and I have seen the way the Donzi is built up close and personal and it's simply not a race inspired design intended to be run at 80+ mph speeds. It's a very nice 65 mph performance boat but that's about it. As far as handling is concerned the Donzi is middle of the pack, better than many but far from high performance. BTW, Stuffing 525 HP into a stock 22C of any vintage is a recipe for disaster IMHO but it's your life and your money.

This boat, OTOH, appears to be much more along the lines of the old small race boats that were designed and built in the 60's and 70's but discarded once the builders realized they could make more money building 35'+ boats for the wall street crowd.

When you consider the construction of the 21 Sutphen. A proper cored hull, side and deck properly secured to the hull, a race quality stringer system (not 1/2 plywood with single lap seams), proper bulkheads and an cockpit built up from the hull, not down from the deck you have a very compelling little package.

Add to that a proven hull mildly redesigned with a moderate reverse chine and a small pad to assist in lift and stability I imagine you end up with a "no surprises" hull design that can take almost anything you can throw at it and not require fiberglass work in a year of two. I mean look at it's construction compared to ANYTHING else in this size.

100% Vinyl Ester Resin
Hand Laid Bi & Tri-axle Fiberglass
Full Length Stringer System
Fully Cored Hull & Deck
20 Degree Graduated Deadrise Hull
Deck Thru Bolted & Glassed to Hull
Competition Style Rigging

This is race boat stuff, something you will never get from a mass production shop.

So, lets summarize, better built, better handling, faster and less expensive........ Yep it's a lot more than just faster with the same power :laugher:

.......nevermind.............

 

[mattyboy]

Carl,

I understand and respect your brand loyalty, but please go give this boat a look I am sure you will not be disappointed. This boat is something new, it is made well, performs well, and is very competitively priced with a big bang for the buck. I know some want that number one on the side, or the donzi on the side I understand that. this is a great offering in the small vee hi po market 20 ish feet long . 10 years ago you had a ton to pick from scarab, velocity,superboat,apache,donzi ,cigarette to name a few I am sure i have left a few out no disrespect intended. how many are left in that market ??
the boat also gives you an I/O or O/B option with out having to go to a custom order.

this boat might not be for everyone some might want a known name but I got to tell you the Sutphen name has been around and once the word gets out on how this boat performs it will gain an audience.

this sorta makes me think of how it was in golden days Don, Brownie and the crew draggin a boat around to shows and running when ever they could, representing the product, rubbing elbows, building a rep with a fan base.

I think they are very confident in their product, they have taken it to runs and water all over the place.
even right into the belly of the beast AOTH the event where most of of the biggest and fastest Donzi run.

I hope they do well, and can weather this economy,

I wish I didn't have 2 college tuition bills, I could see one in my driveway someday ,will probably have to go to a preowned 18 classic for now,

also just food for thought why in that 20 ish market, why are there more 20-22 degree deadrise padded type hulls like the Sutphen, superboat , tuff 21 , progression, and no one is copying or modifying the 22 classic hull???
the Sutphen is a new design not a stretched out one from an old design, and alot of fine tuning has gone into the George Linder 21 challenger hull over the years
that was/is a very successful hull
the Sutphen hull is a great new design I think they hit it out of the park first pitch.

the classic donzi are near and dear to my heart , I have been exposed to the challenger 21 hulls too and now the Sutphen they have a place in my heart too

it really is all good

 

[CC]

I had a reply typed out but deleted it. I am married to my boat for at least 5 years now but I am very happy with my choice. Now if a Sutphen is able to pass me by on the snotty waters of Lake St. Clair or Lakes Huron or Erie I might feel differently. And the above statement that the Donzi 22 Classic is a 65 mph boat is pure ignorance. That is a slow cruise for me. Last week I was CRUISING for awhile at 80 mph on St. Clair. Many run well into the 80s and some over 100 and you know that, Matty. The boat is very steady and forgiving at speed. Here is what it is like at 80-82:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCbFrcW54dM

 

[mattyboy]

Carl,
what stock out of the box 22 is running in the 80's maybe the 009 or shelby with raised X??? along with their raised sticker price.
what are the 100 mph 22 running for power???


I thought you said it wasn't about the speed?????


I driven the sutphen, the 22 the 18 and the 16 the minx I suggest you do the same and give us an honest overview if you can ,being married financially to your boat could it make you biased???.
we all know there are fast boats in every shape and size mighty mouse comes to mind, the 900 hp checkmate I saw at the cig run that gave fits to the 100 mph fountain the 100 mph cig 20's that look like they are on rails . take those boats in the base form and compare to the Sutphen in it's base form

you'd rather have your 22 i understand that , I would really love a benchseat hornet that barely does 50 everybody has their wants and needs when it comes to their boat.

but you miss the point again and again this boat performs very well with less power and less cost and it's built well "out of the box" not everyone needs to run 80 in the rough stuff
or put alot of money and time into their boat to make it go faster


again this is all good for the vee hi po fans

 

[mjw930]

Nevermind.....

 

[mattyboy]

Many run well into the 80s and some over 100 and you know that, Matty. The boat is very steady and forgiving at speed. Here is what it is like at 80-82:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCbFrcW54dM

I also know that those 80+ mph 22 owners would probably not agree with that statement that they are forgiving and stable at those speeds, thought they needed to be driven with extreme concentration with the correct setup trim/ prop and an eye for upcoming water.

the video doesn't look to stable, but that can be deceiving I know I take bad videos and pics all the time

Carl you are the first one to say all 22 are not the same,another thing to take into account when looking at the Sutphen with their production methods the variances between hulls is probably very very small

please if you get a chance go look at the boat then give us your feelings

 

[CC]

Matty, that is a passenger holding a camera in hand on a run up to 81.9 gps. Of course it is not rock steady. You, of all people, should know that one thing we love about these boats is that they ARE driver's boats that take skill and seat time to master. We like that round keel and the deep banked turns that it allows. We like being able to induce porpoise but lower the drive and give her some gas and it levels right out. I have a lot of confidence in my driving ability and also in the boat. When I hit that unseen 5' freighter wake a little too fast I know my boat will come down straight. I'm not going to seek a Sutphen out to drive because I owe 30k on my boat on another 20k on the engine so I am not in the market for a new boat for a while! Let's just drop the comparisons. Sell the boat on it's own merit. If it were all about bang for the buck I'd buy an STV.

 

[mattyboy]

Let's just drop the comparisons. If it were all about speed I'd buy an STV.

ok let's talk about other things like price and workmanship