It's all in the name!
Seriously though, new companies have to start their prices off low just because they aren't a well known name in a highly competitive sales market, in order to attract customers. After they get that sales base, then we all know what happens. Plus the quality of the product increases with time and experience (usually). Like they say, you get what you pay for.

 

Like they say, you get what you pay for.

I agree, but what are we paying for thats making teh $$$ so high...thats my question

 

We must be paying for the right to be out on the water looking at chicks instead of being at work. The materials alone definitely don't cost that much. Some of the labor is fairly intense, but not that bad. Definitely a good question. :jeff:

 

product liability perhaps

 

I think new boat manufactures are pricing them out of selling boats. So to make more money they charge more and sell less. It is an endless cycle. I woulk like to know exactly how much money a company like Baja has in a 30 outlaw, I think someone said the price is around $120,000. My understanding is that the dealer wants to make 15% to 20% so that puts dealer cost at somewhere around $96,000. It can not cost $96K to build a 30 ft outlaw. I do agree that there is some research and development costs involved in new boats but it sure seems like the prices are wayyyy to high.

 

Probably the most expensive part of boat building is the mold.

 

Materials to build a 28' boat is under 10,000.
Then you have to add labor. Two to three people labor for four two five weeks.

I have been looking for a bare hull and have been quoted $30,000 to $60,00 for a bare hull.

Thats on hell of profit!!!

 

jb, I think you answered your own question. It's because it's a LUXURY item. No one needs a $120,000. boat, so if you can afford it, the builder/dealer is going to get their 20% margin. 20% is a pretty low margin for small quantity production.

 

JB

Joke boats was originally started as Prototype which was built by Phil Cline in Largo, Fla.

There have been approximately seven boats built.

 

jb, I think you answered your own question. It's because it's a LUXURY item. No one needs a $120,000. boat, so if you can afford it, the builder/dealer is going to get their 20% margin. 20% is a pretty low margin for small quantity production.

I have just started looking for a boat to buy and this point seems to strike as the most poignant. I could not believe the markup i initially saw, it made no sense why a boat manufacturer would put such a inflated msrp just to knock $20,000 off a $54,000 boat. it seems like much of it is about prestige, while some of it is about quality. I think it is a bad move for manufactures to suggest such high msrps, until the boat show i really thought that I was secluded from a vast portion of the market. Now after realizing i can make seemingly ludicrously low offers and have them accepted I have more options open. The entire thing does not give me a solid feeling about the industry.

 

product liability perhaps

No doubt liability is a big part of it. A less than scrupulous lawyer, or boater, can and will grab a manufacturer for as much as he or she can over any boat related mishap.

jb - I'm with you. If you can get a good deal on a used boat in good condition and it meets your needs and or desires why spend the $ for new??

However, when you buy a used boat {like I did}, you can put allot of $ in it making it the way you want....I did Hell, I'll never get out of it what I've got into it. For what I have invested in Casey's old ride I almost have the cost of a new 23 ft. Baja. But, I don't think there's a new stock Baja of the same size out on the lake that can keep up with the old Nova. Like the saying goes..hp and speed costs money....all part of the fun and sport I guess

 

Never pay MSRP. And always haggle about the cost. It is the fools who want something so bad they will pay, and that causes the price to go up. Availability is another BS term.

 

I think bellyfeel makes a very good point about the luxury end of it.

Dvlbanos - I've never made an offer on a new boat, but have heard dealers will sometimes accept an offer way lower than msrp.

Not to be nosey, but if you can post some of the msrp prices along with offers you are making on new boats. Think it would be very interesting and informative to hear what dealers are accepting. Could turn out to be a good thread.

 

Of all the boats I owned...one was new...I did not pay what MSRP was but it wasnt 20%less either. I shopped many dealers and all were withing 5%.

Anywho, OL is not a real world boat in my opinion. Its buying a status at that point. Cigs not quite as bad....
But take a 27 foot boat...what do ya think it should really cost?? 30k?? 35k???

 

Of all the boats I owned...one was new...I did not pay what MSRP was but it wasnt 20%less either. I shopped many dealers and all were withing 5%.

Anywho, OL is not a real world boat in my opinion. Its buying a status at that point. Cigs not quite as bad....
But take a 27 foot boat...what do ya think it should really cost?? 30k?? 35k???

I think allot of the cost depends on the power alone. If you want a 27 footer to go 75 mph, it's going to take good power and a good drive to do that. Plus hydro steering would be a good idea. Hard to say what a well equiped 27 to go 75mph would go for.

 

jb- Talk to Mr. Congel next week end

Does Conjel sell Sunsations??

 

Good thread. The Dallas Boat Show is in progress this week and the asking prices are up there. I'm sure they are dealing much lower $$ but they start high so they can come down to the "boat show only" price.

It sounds like you could start a boat company and sell at lower margins and take market share. Unfortunately, it won't work that way. You would end up selling at higher margins like everyone else because you would be leaving so much $$ on the table.

Most everything sells at what the market will bear.

 

Do I think there is a decent mark up? Yes I do. Having said that I believe that part of it is just the industry. What do 2 525efis with drives cost from merc? I would guess the dealer pays $30-40K for the pair maybe, maybe more with drives, transom plates, and props. Then I would bet insurance for their operation is pretty high a lot not so nice chemicals laying around. There isn't a lot of automation in the boat building business so labor costs have to be high. Building a boat is still more of an art then say building a car. Then rigging the boat, all the wiring, having someone do the vinyl work and then paint the darn thing. There are not very many builders that fabricate everything inhouse.

I would guess that you actually pay about 35% above what the boat actually cost to build when you take into account materials, labor, facilities, 3rd party parts and the like.

I don't know what Pantera has to actually pay for parts wholesale but I know he had to buy gauges and mechanicals from Gaffrig, an engine and drive from Merc, LED lights, cabin lights, door latch, pop up lights, swim platform, vinyl work and bolsters, paint(price a gallon of Awl grip and associated products sometime), sink, stereo, cooler, water pump, sea strainer, all the braided hoses, through hull fittings, carpet, Pirelli flooring and a bunch of other small items from venders. And since they build maybe a couple dozen boats in thier best year, I doubt they get much of a discount over what you or I could pay for them.

It's been said before, the best way to make a million building boats is to start with two.

 

Just makes god buisness sense. If you can get the dollar, take it. If you start to have these 100 grand boats sitting around, then you of course will have to get off your high horse and sell them cheaper to get rid of them.

As well boats arent kitchen cabinettes. I'm sure there is quite a bank roll to build 20 or 30 of these at a time. Sitting on a finished boat sucks, so when you sell one, you want to get all the return you can.

 

I agree with the suggestion that everyone on here that makes an offer on a new or used boat, to post to all of us what the offer was that accepted as well as the MSRP's. Maybe we will all become more well informed and all have new boats, growing the buisness.. Perfect world huh? But its a start because of effort and sharing of knowledge. I do know there are some pretty darn smart individuals on this site. I have been sold on reading for quite some time now and learned a great deal from everyone. I was already an avid boater since childhood, now I am an informed avid boater. Thanks Speedwake members!

 

I agree with the suggestion that everyone on here that makes an offer on a new or used boat, to post to all of us what the offer was that accepted as well as the MSRP's. Maybe we will all become more well informed and all have new boats, growing the buisness.. Perfect world huh? But its a start because of effort and sharing of knowledge. I do know there are some pretty darn smart individuals on this site. I have been sold on reading for quite some time now and learned a great deal from everyone. I was already an avid boater since childhood, now I am an informed avid boater. Thanks Speedwake members!

Here here :beers:

 

If the mark-up seems so wide in the boat building business, why are they always reporting losses? I'm referring to Fountain as the example but almost all of the publicly traded builders are in the same shape.

 

I agree with the suggestion that everyone on here that makes an offer on a new or used boat, to post to all of us what the offer was that accepted as well as the MSRP's. Maybe we will all become more well informed and all have new boats, growing the buisness.. Perfect world huh? But its a start because of effort and sharing of knowledge. I do know there are some pretty darn smart individuals on this site. I have been sold on reading for quite some time now and learned a great deal from everyone. I was already an avid boater since childhood, now I am an informed avid boater. Thanks Speedwake members!

The guys over on the Z3/M coupe board have done something smiler to this. But they have started a cartel, more or less they are tying to price fix Mcoupes. It has worked actually, two years ago I could have bought a Mcoupe with hardly any miles in the low 20's no problem, could find them all day long. Now the low 20's will buy a four year old coupe with miles on it.

The two main boats I have looked at have been the baja 232 and a crownline 205br with the lpx package.
The new baja was in the range of the low 60's msrp and they were asking in the mid 40's didn't think that was a great deal but managed to get merc 5 year warranty and a aluminum trailer with disc's in. The crownline was a msrp of 54 and some change, with fold away tongue trailer, merc warranty, storage and winterizing the first year I was jsut above 34. I have been looking for used, 2000 or newer baja 232's and trying to stay with boat dealers. I will call and offer usually about 10-15 less than they are asking up front. Sometimes they will laugh but i just leave them with my number and say call back if your interested. So far i have managed to come up with an 01 232 with 454mag, merc 5 year extended warranty, bimini, captains call, cockpit cover, brand new dual axle disc brake aluminum trailer from a dealer for about 33 out the door.

My system is to print out every add that I find interesting, make a call, and write down specifics of the call. I attached a picture of what i call my boat buying center.

 

Dblvanos - They're asking mid 40s for a 232?!?! :shocked: Wow, I did not realize they were looking to get that much. As I mentioned I have'nt considered a "new" boat. But that seems like big $ for a 23 footer. Guess I'm really out of the loop on new boat costs.


Why do they report losses?? Reading Power Boat and a few other mags leaves little doubt that Reggie lives a pretty lavish life style. I expect the others do too. No secret that the big Corps cook the books for tax and stock holder purposes. If they weren't making $ they wouldn't be in business.

 

Dblvanos - Great boat buying center.