I think your temps are ideal. As far as too hot there have been many opinions. I have set my limit at 270-280 running M1 20w50 synthetic. Others say 240-250. be interesting to hear what the engine builders have to say. Main thing is that you are above 212.

 

Swamp you are okay - do not let get any higher.

I did some major phone calling when Kidnova was running into high temps.

Quick summary:

240 max for regular oil
280+ max for synthetic

However, don't let the synthetic numbers fool you into thinking you are okay .

Seals do not like the higher temps - anything over 240 is not healthy for them.

So as far as max oil temp, everyone agreed not to let an engine get over 240 oil temp.

Minimum temp for proper oil flow to operate a loaded engine is 170-180.

Ideal operating temp is still a debate. Many say 180 is ideal and others say 212 is ideal (boiling point of water) is ideal. Now, most of the builders I talked to that where quoting 180 work mostly on automotive engines and the one's quoting 212 are mostly marine engine builders.

 

thanks! Might want to see if the temps creep higher than 230 when I start running it closer to 4000 rpms and beyond - would possibly have to upgrade the oil cooler - righ?

 

thanks! Might want to see if the temps creep higher than 230 when I start running it closer to 4000 rpms and beyond - would possibly have to upgrade the oil cooler - righ?

if you go that route , get one with a thermostat

 

Swamp - What cfm said in post #3.

Plus, I'd recommend synthetic over dino if you have any concerns at all about high oil temps. If you're in the 225* to 230* range at 3200 to 3300 rpm, oil temps will most likely go higher when you get to the 4200 rpm range. Synthetic would be cheap insurance for you. I think about 220 degrees for oil temp at WOT would be about right. Also I'd change oil often. Your engines are working hard to push the Harley around.

If you need bigger coolers, ya might want to consider coolers that are designed for more than the hp your engines develop. Then like tcob says, get the coolers with thermostats. That way you should have adequate cooling, and tstats should keep the oil around 220* or so.

Sounds like you're making progress. Congrats!

 

a link to those coolers would be of great interest.

also- what oil do you suggest? I believe I cant go synthetic for a while right? How many hours before I got synthetic??? and which one (costo oil I hope)

 

a link to those coolers would be of great interest.

also- what oil do you suggest? I believe I cant go synthetic for a while right? How many hours before I got synthetic??? and which one (costo oil I hope)

Not thermostat coolers, but you can order almost any size to fit your needs.
http://i-netmarine.com/oil_coolers/standard_oil_coolers.htm
thermostat coolers
http://www.cpperformance.com/products/Oil/oil-coolers.htm

 

Swamp,

I have the Hardin Marine 620-750 {CP Performance link from MHawkins}. It has a thermostate. Supposed to to be good up to 700 hp. I still run hot, around 270* during/after a punishing WOT romp. I think the thermostat and buit in by-pass tube in the cooler don't function too well so I plan on eleiminating both of them this spring.

I'm running about 500 hp. If you're running basically stock 502's as mentioned in your 1st post, I would think the 620-750 should be fine for your application.

Synthetic: I'm no expert on oil. But from what I've read on this site and others, synth is the way to go. I broke my new engine in on dino 40 wt for the 1st two changes. A total of about 30 hours. Then went to synthetic. I use Valvoline 20-50. But have heard that Mobile 1 15-50 is as good, possibly better. I think you'd be good to go with either. Also, us good oil filters. I use NAPA Gold 60.....I think it's no. 60. Boat is put away for winter so I can't get to it to check...sorry. OSO has an azz kick'n thread on oil and filters if you want to check there. But, I'm sure one of the guys here can suggest good filters.

 

Swamp,

I have the Hardin Marine 620-750 {CP Performance link from MHawkins}. It has a thermostate. Supposed to to be good up to 700 hp. I still run hot, around 270* during/after a punishing WOT romp. I think the thermostat and buit in by-pass tube in the cooler don't function too well so I plan on eleiminating both of them this spring.

I'm running about 500 hp. If you're running basically stock 502's as mentioned in your 1st post, I would think the 620-750 should be fine for your application.

Synthetic: I'm no expert on oil. But from what I've read on this site and others, synth is the way to go. I broke my new engine in on dino 40 wt for the 1st two changes. A total of about 30 hours. Then went to synthetic. I use Valvoline 20-50. But have heard that Mobile 1 15-50 is as good, possibly better. I think you'd be good to go with either. Also, us good oil filters. I use NAPA Gold 60.....I think it's no. 60. Boat is put away for winter so I can't get to it to check...sorry. OSO has an azz kick'n thread on oil and filters if you want to check there. But, I'm sure one of the guys here can suggest good filters.

Kid, I saw somewhere that having your cooler chromed or coated can reduce efficiency 20-30%. I'm hoping that this is my problem. I am working on the cabin right now but plan on ordering a 4" diameter x 24" from i-net marine soon. I am currently running a chromed 3" combo cooler from hardin. After 5 minutes wot I see 270-280* and have to back out of it. Running 580hp

 

Add ot that - need flat black valve covers and flat black oil pan. Wood stove flat black will transfer the most heat into the air.

Now, realistically we don't like the looks or protection that paint has so we need to have the oil cooler pick up the slack.

Too little of a cooler will not cool things down enough.

Too big of a cooler can cool things down too much, however, a oil t-stat will re-route the oil when needed to maintain a minimum temp. Therefore, when using an oil t-stat a cooler can never be too big but one could be too small. Bigger can be better.

 

Add ot that - need flat black valve covers and flat black oil pan. Wood stove flat black will transfer the most heat into the air.

Now, realistically we don't like the looks or protection that paint has so we need to have the oil cooler pick up the slack.

Too little of a cooler will not cool things down enough.

Too big of a cooler can cool things down too much, however, a oil t-stat will re-route the oil when needed to maintain a minimum temp. Therefore, when using an oil t-stat a cooler can never be too big but one could be too small. Bigger can be better.

I have been wondering about the problem of cooling the oil too much (I wish). Our water temp is 80+ during most of the boating season. I can see that a cooler with an integral t-stat is probably the ideal solution, but that linits the size available. Has any one used add-on oil t-stats?

 

I've used and use the Perma-Cool t-stat and has worked fine. It is set at 180 degrees and can be bought at Summit Racing,Jeg's, etc for cheap $$$. $45-$60?

If you want a 210 than you are looking at a Billet Canton, Teague, Mercruiser, etc set up that will cost from $200-$400.

 

I've used and use the Perma-Cool t-stat and has worked fine. It is set at 180 degrees and can be bought at Summit Racing,Jeg's, etc for cheap $$$. $45-$60?

But be careful of the Perma-cool. I used one and and my wot temps went up 25 degrees. Removed it and they went back down. It bypasses a percentage of oil and restricts the rest. I suppose it would be Ok with a bigger cooler and no block bypass. Anyone can have mine cheap if they wanna try it.

 

But be careful of the Perma-cool. I used one and and my wot temps went up 25 degrees. Removed it and they went back down. It bypasses a percentage of oil and restricts the rest. I suppose it would be Ok with a bigger cooler and no block bypass. Anyone can have mine cheap if they wanna try it.

I have been looking at the items CFM mentioned, a couple of them say that they always bypass at least 10% of the oil. I think it will be less plumbing to allow some of the water to bypass the cooler if I do end up with too low oil temps. Havn't thought it through yet but seems like I could split water supply before cooler run it through a gate valve and merge again after the cooler.

 

But be careful of the Perma-cool. I used one and and my wot temps went up 25 degrees. Removed it and they went back down. It bypasses a percentage of oil and restricts the rest. I suppose it would be Ok with a bigger cooler and no block bypass. Anyone can have mine cheap if they wanna try it.

Rogue - thank's for your experience. I have not run into it but then I've only used it on a few applications.

I will definately keep this as a big mental note and something to watch out for.

Experience is your best teacher - thanks again.

 

I have been looking at the items CFM mentioned, a couple of them say that they always bypass at least 10% of the oil. I think it will be less plumbing to allow some of the water to bypass the cooler if I do end up with too low oil temps. Havn't thought it through yet but seems like I could split water supply before cooler run it through a gate valve and merge again after the cooler.

I believe they all do - don't totally quote me on that.

A big reason is so that all passages have pressurized oil and no room for air pockets. Another , I believe, is in the case of t-sat failure so that there is no chance for all the oil to be restricted/blocked.

 

Kid, I saw somewhere that having your cooler chromed or coated can reduce efficiency 20-30%. I'm hoping that this is my problem. I am working on the cabin right now but plan on ordering a 4" diameter x 24" from i-net marine soon. I am currently running a chromed 3" combo cooler from hardin. After 5 minutes wot I see 270-280* and have to back out of it. Running 580hp

MHawkins - I read the same thing about chrome on the cooler. I guess then, prime and paint is the way to go. I painted mine purple .

I wonder if lake water temp is part of my problem as well. We boat in a pretty shallow lake, averages probably between 8 to 20 feet in the areas we're usually in. And very slow current. I used to see lake temps of 80+ degrees with the fish finder on our old boat. Maybe I should have gone one size bigger when I bought the Hardin cooler .

Regardless, I'm not real impressed with the tstat set up on the Hardin I have. It looks like the tstat could actually cause oil to go through the bypass tube on the cooler, even when the tstat all the way open. That's why I plan to eleiminate the tstat and bypass this summer. I'll be looking for ideas on this so I'll be posting a pic of the cooler, along with a request for suggestions. I have a few ideas on how I want to do it. But 5000 heads are better than one

 

Lake water temp definately has a big factor!

Our lake freezes over as your probably does too!

Ice out usually occurs mid-late April.

May water temp will be in 30's-40's.

July-August water temp can reach 80's.

Now, our area is shallow (0-30ft) and get's warm fast (also get's cold real fast) while the deeper areas take a long time to warm up. I've seen 20+ degree differences in water temp on the same day - just different areas of the lake.

Does lake/ocean water temp have something to do with it? Of course !

My vote is still a much bigger oil cooler than you need (more $$ of course but better than buying a few different coolers if the first didn't work for you) and using a t-stat.

MHawkins - I see your idea but what kind of regulation would you use to keep the oil temp where it should be? I think this would be more difficult to pull off but I may not be thinking of the correct ways to attempt doing this.

 

I never got my oil temps in line until I lowered engine coolant temps to the 130-135F range. Actually took mains out on engines before this change. This winter I am going to experiment with different oil pans to see if that is the key.

I second kidnova on the synthetic oil. Anything less in a hard run perf boat engine is potential suicide for the engine.

BT

 

Lake water temp definately has a big factor!

Our lake freezes over as your probably does too!

Ice out usually occurs mid-late April.

May water temp will be in 30's-40's.

July-August water temp can reach 80's.

Now, our area is shallow (0-30ft) and get's warm fast (also get's cold real fast) while the deeper areas take a long time to warm up. I've seen 20+ degree differences in water temp on the same day - just different areas of the lake.

Does lake/ocean water temp have something to do with it? Of course !

My vote is still a much bigger oil cooler than you need (more $$ of course but better than buying a few different coolers if the first didn't work for you) and using a t-stat.

MHawkins - I see your idea but what kind of regulation would you use to keep the oil temp where it should be? I think this would be more difficult to pull off but I may not be thinking of the correct ways to attempt doing this.

CFM,

In my Jet Boating days, we would control engine/oil temps by restricting water flow from jet pump to engine with a gate valve. Normally only had to adjust a couple of times a year according to river temp. Primitive but much more reliable than trying to run a thermostat over the long run.

My thinking at this point is that I can't have too big an oil cooler. However, if I do end up with that situation, the cooler would prevent more resistance to water flow than a 1 1/4" by pass tube around the cooler. If there was a valve in that tube, I could limit the amount of water bypassing thereby controlling the oil temp range. Or I could be wasting time again.

Blue Thunder, My engine water temps are very stable at 155-160F. Are you running a thermostat?

 

I understand what you are saying now.

Be good to run the oil thru the cooler full time but regulate the water going thru to control oil temps.

Hmmm.

You would need a t-stat of some type that would work off of oil temp but regulate flow of water thru the cooler.

Nah, seems to tough when getting a large x large cooler with t-stat will work.

 

I understand what you are saying now.

Be good to run the oil thru the cooler full time but regulate the water going thru to control oil temps.

Hmmm.

You would need a t-stat of some type that would work off of oil temp but regulate flow of water thru the cooler.

Nah, seems to tough when getting a large x large cooler with t-stat will work.

Cfm,

I would like to find a larger cooler with built in t-stat, but they don't seem to be available, which means external t-stat, which means 2 more oil lines (as i undersatnd).

This is my present set up, (havn't cleaned up the engine bay yet)

 

stbd side

 

Cfm,

I would like to find a larger cooler with built in t-stat, but they don't seem to be available, which means external t-stat, which means 2 more oil lines (as i undersatnd).

This is my present set up, (havn't cleaned up the engine bay yet)

MHawkins,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your statement here. Looks like your present cooler is about a +,- 3 x 16, maybe 3 x 18?

My Hardin is 3 x 22 in. and includes the tstat. Hardin says it's good to 700 hp. I think the next step up is Hardin's 620-775, good for 1000 hp and also has the built in tstat.

 

Don't forget to subract the length the PS cooler takes up when comparing one with and one without.