The Perfect Lifter....

5369 Views 74 Replies 18 Participants Last post by Speedwake, May 29, 2008

cstraub

Discussion Starter · May 20, 2008 (Edited)

For use in Marine applications that will exceed 6000 rpm or engines running for extended periods of time.

Now available from Morel is the Perfect Roller lifter. . .runs on a hyd roller or a SOLID roller lobe profile. After months of spintron testing, live engine testing, and field testing a new lifter is available to the enthusist. Morel has taken its technology in materials and body design of solid roller lifters and built the ultimate hyd roller. This lifter features an upgraded body, roller, and axle. The stainless tie bar is connected to a 3 button system to prevent binding and premature failure. The valving system has been tweaked to prevent valve float to a tested 7300 rpm. Last but not least the bodies are REM finished. Iin back to back testing in a BBC application this lifter proved to make 34 more HP over a std hyd roller lifter and an increase in additional rpm when used on the same cam profile.

The lifters when used on solid roller cams do have their limits. Spring pressures should be a max of 220# on the seat and 550# open pressure.

This new generation of lifter is recommened for severe street strip use and extended time marine applications running in excess of 6000 rpm. You can now have you Solid roller and no lash adjustment.....

Status: Not open for further replies.

1 - 20 of 75 Posts

axkiker

· #2 · May 20, 2008

im curious what exactly makes them ok to use on a roller or hydraulic cam.....

also 34 hp increase just from a lifter change is quite impressive. was anything else done tot he engine or was it just a lifter swap alone.....

cstraub

Discussion Starter · #3 · May 20, 2008

axkiker said:
im curious what exactly makes them ok to use on a roller or hydraulic cam.....

also 34 hp increase just from a lifter change is quite impressive. was anything else done tot he engine or was it just a lifter swap alone.....

Morel set out to make an extreme duty lifter, during this they tried some sold rollers to see what the lifter would take. It was after controlled testing they put the lifter in the field last summer for extended testing where the lifter proved itself. Materials and valving allow it to hold up under a solid roller lobe.

The 34HP was gained in a back to back test that consisted of removing the hyd rollers in the engine and that was it.

aquaforce

· #4 · May 21, 2008

Ok now the scarry part.........how much does a set cost

Sounds good.

Mkos1980

· #5 · May 21, 2008

Question is, what RPM were they making this 34 extra HP and how big is this cam lol. (Prob 7300 RPM's) To avoid float, couldnt one just run a Hydra-Rev kit?

Sounds like a good idea to look into though.!

DonMan

· #6 · May 21, 2008

Sounds good, but will they be affordable to the average enthusiast ? Regular Morel lifters are kinda pricey, so I`m betting these may be very expensive. Any idea on price ?

Just wondering - what was the horsepower level of the engine that gained 34 hp by swapping lifters ?

5325user

· #7 · May 21, 2008

like always,your 2-3 yrs late to the party.the sales pitch is nice but i have engines that have been running solids over hydraulic profile cam for years now.no special solid lifter,just good ole crower solid lifters.
this was a nice solution for guys that loved to beat their blower motors hard in bigger boats(could stay in it longer for miles).made ke675 cam and valve train live.
so bottom line,just get yourself good solids and set lash .012"intake,.016"exhaust.

Promod

· #8 · May 21, 2008

DonMan said:
Sounds good, but will they be affordable to the average enthusiast ? Regular Morel lifters are kinda pricey, so I`m betting these may be very expensive. Any idea on price ?

Just wondering - what was the horsepower level of the engine that gained 34 hp by swapping lifters ?

We have been running Crane hydraulics for several years up to 7000rpms with Comp roller cams and Nascar springs with high spring pressures.

Any hydraulic set up designed to sustain hard running well into the 6000rpm range is initially more expensive than its solid lifter counter part.

But when compared to solids with even higher spring pressure and lash beating the crap out of the valve train, replacing springs and lifters at 70 to 100hr intervals it is way cheaper.
We have 170hrs on our Crane hydraulic valve trains on both our methanol injected 1400hp 565s and have gone from 210 to 206 lbs of spring pressure in 170hrs. That would have been two complete top end jobs if we were still running solids.

5325user

· #9 · May 21, 2008

DonMan said:
Sounds good, but will they be affordable to the average enthusiast ? Regular Morel lifters are kinda pricey, so I`m betting these may be very expensive. Any idea on price ?

Its doubtful that they will be affordable by anyone that doesn't have major $$$$$ for a motor. as far as a boat motor goes, they are major over kill. There is no need for them until you get into the 1500 HP big dollar blower motors. On the motors that 95% of us have there is no reason for these lifters.

but they would be great in a drag car or a circle track car.

cstraub

Discussion Starter · #10 · May 21, 2008

DonMan said:
Sounds good, but will they be affordable to the average enthusiast ? Regular Morel lifters are kinda pricey, so I`m betting these may be very expensive. Any idea on price ?

Just wondering - what was the horsepower level of the engine that gained 34 hp by swapping lifters ?

Don,
Retail on these is $649. They are full rebuildable. This lifter give someone the ability to run a solid roller lobe with a lifter that does not require periodic maintenance as in lash adjustment. The lifter will also be available in .903" diameter later on.

Don't know HP on the BBC tested but I will see about finding out.

5325user

· #11 · May 21, 2008

Promod said:
We have 170hrs on our Crane hydraulic valve trains on both our methanol injected 1400hp 565s and have gone from 210 to 206 lbs of spring pressure in 170hrs.

Yup!

At the PRI show, those that heard the Crane people talk, heard that Crane has tested their hyd lifters to 275 on the seat, without failure.

cfm

· #12 · May 21, 2008 (Edited)

cstraub said:
Don,
This lifter give someone the ability to run a solid roller lobe with a lifter that does not require periodic maintenance as in lash adjustment.

I can't keep silent anymore.

This is 1 million % the type of suggestion that should never fall upon the avarage hands.

Chris, To suggest to the masses that running any hydraulic lifter on a solid cam is wrong ! It's a set-up for broken parts and/or just ill running motor.

If someone is very adverse in engine building and wants to mess with this sort of stuff, than fine. I hope they know exactly what they are attempting to do !

I have not agreed with your solid roller lifter on hydraulic roller cams - although not as severe as this - not only because I'm a firm believer in using the lifter type a cam is designed for, but more for the reason of you making regular people believe that is the better way of doing things and that it is a totally normal method. It's not !

Let the big guys who know what they are up against do these sort of things, but do not make it look to normal performance enthusiasts that this is, again, not only acceptable, but something they should consider or even yet worse do !

Personally - suggesting this, or even putting it up in a general forum is freakin' insane ! and immoral !

I'll stop now with a quote I copied from Harold Brookshire when a discussion on both these methods came up as a talk:

quote from Harold Brookshire

The real question is not "Can it be done?" but should be "Should it be done?".
All cams have ramps to take up lash and deflection. Hydraulic cams only have to take up deflection, so their ramps are not as high as solid ramps are.
The SAE claims that hydraulic and hydraulic roller cams take up all the deflection in a valve train in .004" of lifter rise, and this is what most companies figure as ramp height. At a 1.5:1 rocker, that is only .006" valve lash, very tight. You can run a little looser valve lash, but because hydraulic profiles start adding lots of acceleration early, too loose of a valve lash batters the valve tip. I never recommend more than .010" valve lash when running a solid lifter or roller lifter on any hydraulic profile.
The duration is different, also, a little shorter than the hydraulic's advertised duration.
You can go the other way and run hydraulic lifters or hydraulic roller lifters on solid lifter or solid roller lifter cams, but WATCH OUT!!! You should do this only on tight-lash cam profiles, because they have ramps in the .008"-.011" lift range. Running hydraulics on a wide-lash cam adds huge increases of seat duration to the profile, killing off all bottom end, vacuum, and idle.
Sometimes tight-lash solids are run with hydraulic lifters, even 'messed-with' hydraulic lifters, in certain oval-track classes requiring hydraulic cams. You had better know what you're doing, and you are taking your chances.....
Can it be done? Yes, but you had better know what's going to happen, and be willing to accept that.....

UDHarold

See less See more

cstraub

Discussion Starter · #13 · May 21, 2008

Sorry you feel that way Scott...

5325user

· #14 · May 21, 2008

cstraub said:
Retail on these is $649.

That price is insane. almost twice as much as standard hyd lifters that in almost every case can do what you want a HYD lifter to do.

Tinkerer

· #15 · May 22, 2008

5325user = These are hyd. ROLLER lifters.
And that price is not bad for a good set of hyd. roller lifters.
I have been thinking of installing solid roller lifters in my 509's. I am running 741 cams.

DonMan

· #16 · May 22, 2008

cfm said:
I'm a firm believer in using the lifter type a cam is designed for, but more for the reason of you making regular people believe that is the better way of doing things and that it is a totally normal method. It's not !

I agree with Scott on this.

Can anyone honestly tell me that these lifters will be better in say, a 600 hp, marine engine, seeing less than 6000 rpm, like a lot of guys here have ??

And in my world $650 for a set of lifters is insane.

Just my opinion.

5325user

· #17 · May 22, 2008

Tinkerer said:
5325user = These are hyd. ROLLER lifters.
And that price is not bad for a good set of hyd. roller lifters.
I have been thinking of installing solid roller lifters in my 509's. I am running 741 cams.

I know. Still WAY more than anyone elses, even Moral's are only around $500.

5325user

· #18 · May 22, 2008

DonMan said:
Can anyone honestly tell me that these lifters will be better in say, a 600 hp, marine engine, seeing less than 6000 rpm, like a lot of guys here have ??

Nope.

Promod

· #19 · May 22, 2008

5325user said:
Nope.

These high dollar lifters are not designed or needed for 600hp engines or any engine running less than 6000 rpms nor do I believe anyone made reference to that.

They are designed to give solid lifter performance with more than 3 times the durability.

So for guys like me and many more running their rigs and making their hp in the 6000+rpm range.

Every few seasons we don't need to replace springs, lifters etc as we did on our solid set ups.

So running a high end hydraulic set up is not even half the cost of running solids.

Nothing more nothing less!

DonMan

· #20 · May 22, 2008

Promod said:
These high dollar lifters are not designed or needed for 600hp engines or any engine running less than 6000 rpms nor do I believe anyone made reference to that.

No one has made reference to this fact. That was CFM`s point --- the common guy here on Speedwake is going to read that first post and think "Oh boy, more horsepower just from swapping lifters !!"

1 - 20 of 75 Posts

Status: Not open for further replies.