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This is why we are paying so much for gas!

1394 Views 23 Replies 14 Participants Last post by  aquaforce, 
Marmaduke
Ok fellas here is my take on it. The recession thread and all the talk about high gas prices and the fact that I am in the process of writing a business plan for Algae Biodiesel Systems a viable business venture that I am working on. I believe that I have uncovered the reason that gas prices are so high. So here it is.

Michael Briggs, a physicist in the University of New Hampshire (UNH) Biodiesel group, calculated the annual equivalent amount of biodiesel needed to meet all US ground transportation needs. (6) He assumes that all gasoline-powered vehicles could be replaced over time—the average life of a car in the US is 20 years—by biodiesel vehicles. He assumes no change in the current average fleet mileage, but does factor in that diesel engines are more efficient. With these assumptions—and a correction for the 2% lower mileage for biodiesel—he arrives at 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel a year to meet US ground transportation needs. He does note that if people began to buy diesel hybrids (Mercedes showed its diesel hybrid concept car in June and it gets 70 mpg), the total fuel required might be reduced by a factor of three or more. (7)

Briggs used the numbers from NREL's Aquatic Species Program—that one quad (7.5 billion gallons) of biodiesel could be produced on 200,000 ha (roughly 500,000 acres) or about 780 square miles—to compute that 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel would requre 19 quads (140.8 ÷ 7.5).This would require about 15,000 square miles (19 x 780), or about 9.5 million acres—which he notes is only about 12.5% of the area of the Sonoran desert of the Southwest. So using algae as a source of oil for biodiesel with the NREL productivity assumption, the acreage required is less than 3% of the 450 million acres now used to grow crops.

Based on a UNH research project, (8) Briggs then estimates the total cost of producing 140.8 billion gallons of oil (unrefined) for biodiesel at $46.2 billion—substantially less than the $100Â_150 billion that the US currently spends to purchase foreign crude oil. Thus the large-scale algae farms envisioned by NREL would generate many jobs and substantially reduce the US trade deficit.

Sorry for the long read but this information has the oil companies shaking in their pants and has resulted in them pushing prices up as much as possible.
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Pantera28
The way I see it is if the US would set a concrete energy plan to reduce foreign oil they would drop prices so low that it would become to costly to change. It's happened in the past.
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Marmaduke
That is very possible but hopefully unlikely especially if we go into production of Biodiesel. We would then have to position our product as the green alternative to cheap petroleum based fuels and that certainly would stress our revenue streams.
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W
Hey 29, whats with all the sudden interest in algae biodiesel? In the last 6 months i have gotten more phone calls askign about our pumps for this application then i get for most backyard biodiesel brewers! One outfit in TX bought one of our biggest pumps for their prototype and said if this project pans out they will be building facilities around the country....each facility would be on an acre of land and hold 10 of our pumps.........at $5k each pump!
Is this some sort of new fad in the industry or are they finding a better way of making diesel?
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Marmaduke
Can you give me the name of this company I have to interview 5 potential competitors that will be planning on producing biodiesel?

Do a simple search on google and you will find out. Basically algae can yield 5000-15000 times the fatty acids that rapeseed or Oil palm can produce the two other major feedstocks for biodiesel production. Also algae can be grown on waste streams reduce C02 gases in ethanol production and or could be feed cellulosic sugars and convert it all to fattyacids which is a form of oil that can be convert to biodiesel or Cetane.
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O
it's allot easier to understand you when we are both drunk :laugher: :laugher: :laugher: :laugher:
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W
Sorry but i didn't pay attention to names when they call for tech assistance :( Most phone calls i get are usually from one of our distributors looking to spec a pump for a particular application/customer. But as of late i have been getting end users calling us looking for info. I can tell you that for the applications i have seen thus far, as far as our pumps go you would be looking for a Kynar plastic pump with mica-teflon bushings or ceramic bushings and Teflon O-rings. From what little info i have from talking with these guys they will be just pumping water but every so often when cleaning the system out they will be using a bleach solution. Here check out the website www.marchpump.com go to the left side and click on "pump selection"...then scroll down to "series 10" thats what most of them have been inquiring about
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Marmaduke
BV :laugher: :laugher: :laugher: yeah I hear that!

Wally thanks. Checked them out and I probably already have the info that I need to contact the people in Texas.
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jb
whatever fills my tank for less $ in the short run gets my vote now. Whatever fills my tank for less $ in the long run... better frickin hurry
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Duke69
This is the upside to high gas prices, R&D dollars will flow faster the higher the price of gas gets!

On anudder note, never knew that 29Scarab was so smert...
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Marmaduke
yeah I am a real fart smeller! :D
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Marmaduke
Duke69 said:
This is the upside to high gas prices, R&D dollars will flow faster the higher the price of gas gets!
Click to expand...
Anyways a lot of people see high gas prices as a stress they complain and b!tch and moan. Well I see it as an opportunity like none other. I am going to look at a couple duramax diesels tomorrow and should have one very soon. :)
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aquaforce
29Scarabthunder said:
Ok fellas here is my take on it.

Sorry for the long read but this information has the oil companies shaking in their pants and has resulted in them pushing prices up as much as possible.
Click to expand...



Well since transportation is less than 40% of crude use the remaining 60% is still part of production, products etc which would still net quite a substantial market for the crude industry.

My understanding is that alternates are mostly for resource streatching and not replacement of crude in the US.

Brazil on the other hand is doing exactly what you described in their effort to be crude free. That makes an interesting example for the onlookers.

Good luck with your business endeavours. :bigsmile:

I like crude........... more more more :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:
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Kidnova
29Scarabthunder said:
Ok fellas here is my take on it. The recession thread and all the talk about high gas prices and the fact that I am in the process of writing a business plan for Algae Biodiesel Systems a viable business venture that I am working on. I believe that I have uncovered the reason that gas prices are so high. So here it is.

Michael Briggs, a physicist in the University of New Hampshire (UNH) Biodiesel group, calculated the annual equivalent amount of biodiesel needed to meet all US ground transportation needs. (6) He assumes that all gasoline-powered vehicles could be replaced over time—the average life of a car in the US is 20 years—by biodiesel vehicles. He assumes no change in the current average fleet mileage, but does factor in that diesel engines are more efficient. With these assumptions—and a correction for the 2% lower mileage for biodiesel—he arrives at 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel a year to meet US ground transportation needs. He does note that if people began to buy diesel hybrids (Mercedes showed its diesel hybrid concept car in June and it gets 70 mpg), the total fuel required might be reduced by a factor of three or more. (7)

Briggs used the numbers from NREL's Aquatic Species Program—that one quad (7.5 billion gallons) of biodiesel could be produced on 200,000 ha (roughly 500,000 acres) or about 780 square miles—to compute that 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel would requre 19 quads (140.8 ÷ 7.5).This would require about 15,000 square miles (19 x 780), or about 9.5 million acres—which he notes is only about 12.5% of the area of the Sonoran desert of the Southwest. So using algae as a source of oil for biodiesel with the NREL productivity assumption, the acreage required is less than 3% of the 450 million acres now used to grow crops.

Based on a UNH research project, (8) Briggs then estimates the total cost of producing 140.8 billion gallons of oil (unrefined) for biodiesel at $46.2 billion—substantially less than the $100Ÿ150 billion that the US currently spends to purchase foreign crude oil. Thus the large-scale algae farms envisioned by NREL would generate many jobs and substantially reduce the US trade deficit.

Sorry for the long read but this information has the oil companies shaking in their pants and has resulted in them pushing prices up as much as possible.
Click to expand...
I think that's terrific !! I really do :) But there are and or will be glitches :rolleyes:

Most citizens are afraid or un-willing to change. The politicians will need to figure out how to line their own pockets from this or they'll over regulate it to death and slow progress to a snails pace. Greenie-boppers will say that the algae is being tortured and try to stop it that way.

Don't get me wrong Billy. It sounds great. But while you'r planning on how to git'r done, you'll need a "Team B", to get around the regs and other BS ;)
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W
Funny thing is that no one realy knows how many "Home brewers" there are out there making their own bio-deisel! Hell i get a minimum of 1 call per day.....and thats from the guys looking for a slightly larger scale then "just enough" to fill up ones own fuel tanks. One of my buddy's brothers is making his own bio fuel in his garage...made the entire contraption from junk he found around the neighborhood that people were throwing out!!!
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A
so what is the public currently making bio diesel out of now days. Is the standard still old cooking oil or are there new tricks out.
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B
There is a shortage on corn right now for the making of Ethanol for gasoline and what did congress just do, pass a bill continuing subsidies for them NOT to grow crops, that was great when we needed to control supply so it was'nt a dollar a bushel, but now with the increased demand why are we still paying farmers not to grow crops??? bush said he will veto it but congress has the votes to overturn it, by the way, the agriculture lobby is one of the largest in Washington, go figure. :rolleyes:
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S
I'll keep beating this drum: a little research on the corn shortage shows this -

-------may 07 / may08
wheat - 500 / 1050
oats - 300 / 400
rice - 1200 / 2400
corn - 400 / 620
soy - 800 / 1300

These prices are per bushel or whatever they measure them in. The numbers are from the Chicago Board of Trade website.
If ethanol has pushed the price of corn to all time highs, how does that expain all the other food commodities doing the same thing?
You're right about farm subsidies though, they need to go or at least be reduced.
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Kidnova
Schnook said:
I'll keep beating this drum: a little research on the corn shortage shows this -

-------may 07 / may08
wheat - 500 / 1050
oats - 300 / 400
rice - 1200 / 2400
corn - 400 / 620
soy - 800 / 1300

These prices are per bushel or whatever they measure them in. The numbers are from the Chicago Board of Trade website.
If ethanol has pushed the price of corn to all time highs, how does that expain all the other food commodities doing the same thing?
You're right about farm subsidies though, they need to go or at least be reduced.
Click to expand...
Wow I would have thought the price of corn would have gone up more percentage wise than the others.

I'd venture to guess the price of the others have risen due to increased demand, higher price of fertilizer, and price of fuel rising.

I just do not understand farm subsedies. If one crop doesn't grow/sell, then plant something that does. Sure, learning and changing over to another crop might take a while, but that's life, and business.
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5
Schnook said:
I'll keep beating this drum: a little research on the corn shortage shows this -

-------may 07 / may08
wheat - 500 / 1050
oats - 300 / 400
rice - 1200 / 2400
corn - 400 / 620
soy - 800 / 1300

These prices are per bushel or whatever they measure them in. The numbers are from the Chicago Board of Trade website.
If ethanol has pushed the price of corn to all time highs, how does that expain all the other food commodities doing the same thing?
You're right about farm subsidies though, they need to go or at least be reduced.
Click to expand...
Everything else goes up because farmers will stop growing that other stuff so they can grow corn. It's land demand more than it is commodity demand.
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